There are and have been an enormous number of sub-only events in SL, from support groups to shopping trips. The number of Dom/me-only events has been growing in recent years. It’s my sense that segregated discussions/support groups make up a substantial percentage of the total events held. I’ve been thinking about this phenomenon and have decided to share my thoughts here. I am speaking primarily about sub-only groups as those are the ones I have direct experience with. (And incidentally, I am not making any distinction between slaves and subs here, the phenomenon in my opinion applies evenly across the s-type spectrum.)
The reasons for a sub-only group, as I understand it, include the idea that subs will not feel as safe or as comfortable with Dom/mes present. For support groups, there is also the rationale that a sub can talk about his/her relationship with his/her Dom/me without experiencing the Dominant perspective.
What does it mean, if subs in general don’t feel safe and comfortable with Dom/mes in general? And what does it mean if subs don’t find the Dominant perspective as valid as the submissive one?
The most disturbing, to me, implication of value in segregation - at least from a sub group perspective - is that there is a real power differential in everyday life between those who self-identify as submissive and those who self-identify as Dominant. Not just a consensual power differential in a person’s submitted relationship, but a social power differential within the community.
The other implication comes out of that premise: that there is enough cultural difference between the submissive experience and the Dominant experience that we can’t understand each other well. Related to that is the possibility that segregated events carry the risk of encouraging the tendency for people to relate to each other primarily as roles, rather than as people: to relate to their D/s partner(s) as Dominance or submission dispensers.
One of the most valuable discussion formats I’ve come across was the one held at Timeless Desires (Bucephalus, Phedre and Lilith). In that format, the discussion alternated weekly between submissives and Dominants speaking, with the delightful twist that the other half of the polarity were encouraged to attend and listen, but were asked not to speak. I learned a lot in that format and felt a sense of commitment to mutual understanding from the discussion participants.
Perhaps segregated groups come out of the women’s movement, where segregation was (and often still is) a valid response to real-world inequities. However, submission and Dominance are not dependent on gender, and I would argue that we in D/s are already in the forefront of denying the artificial inequities of stereotype and prejudice. I am not saying that segregated groups are necessarily always a harmful thing, but I am saying that perhaps it behooves us to examine the premises behind their proliferation.
Meadow
Ryn’s kajira
6 comments:
Thank You for sharing Your thoughts on submissives only events in SL.
The apparent need for segregation struck me strangely as well.
As You mentioned, the feeling of increased safety if subs are among subs
seems to be one reason for such segregative groups. So I wonder, why, generally
speaking, do subs feel safer if Doms are not present?
It seems to contradict the essence of D/s relationship with feeling of deep trust, safety and mutual commitment in its core which also includes radical openness between submissive and Dominant. Or is it that subs feel "safer", more comfortable among submissives as they can talk freely there, and do not have to cling to a certain (self) expected role model for being
a "properly behaving sub in Dominant presence" and/or expectations on the Dominant's
side? But if so, doesn't it make aware of a fundamental problem, if there cannot be radical
openness and authenticity of being what one is if in the Dominant's presence?
Or is it the presence of other Dominants that may intimidate some submissives to speak freely what is on their hearts and minds? Why is it that a sense of "soul and self can breathe" seems
to get lost at times if submissives and dominants mix in SL? Isn't most about our own choices?
Another perspective on segregation -- this time not "feeling of increased safety" being the reason. Segregation may strengthen bonds among members of the self-segregating groups, in this context, bonds between submissives. And also, gender differences may play a role.
While females often love to socialize and chatter, generally speaking, males might not
always appreciate it the same as females do cause they have other ways of socializing and
communication, and might use less words and might feel less need to share with likemindeds.
This is all generally speaking, of course, it is clear it won't apply to every individual.
Maybe female submissives fear to get on nerves of male Dominants with their chatter and as
they cannot deal well with displeasing Dominants, yet need their souls to vent verbally among
likemindeds, they prefer to do it without Dominants present?
I fully agree with You, Meadow, that "submission and Dominance are not dependent on gender" and with "we in D/s are already in the forefront of denying the artificial inequities of stereotype and prejudice". And yes, let's "examine the premises behind their proliferation".
Positive developments rarely happen without self-reflection of thoughts and actions and the
underlying motives.
mirjam
This idea of segregation has struck me and after reading both the post and then the comment i must admit that indeed there is something in total contradiction with the underlying spirit of a D/s which is trust and openness.
Regarding "the presence of other Dominants that may intimidate some submissives to speak freely" it sounds like kids scared to speak out to adults about one issue they may have, and i'm certain you are right about this interpretation Mirjam.
I do believe that for some submissives, the image of the powerful dominant is certainly a curb to their self confidence.
sacha
when i want or need a Dom/me's perspective regarding specific issues, i will ask my own Master. likewise, when i want or need a perspective i feel can best be gleened from fellow sub/slaves, i am glad to have a sub/slaves only group to turn to.
it really has nothing, whatsoever, to do with not wishing to bother with protocol or feeling afraid or intimidated to express myself in front of Dom/mes. it does, however, have everything to do with seeking input from those whose perspectives and experiences would most closely match mine.
for more general educational purposes, i regularly attend mixed groups, where lectures and discussions are held and/or attended by subs/slaves and Dom/mes. i have no problem, at all, expressing myself and, in fact, value the various viewpoints.
there's a time and a place and purpose for all, in my opinion.
kat
Swizzle's submissive
I know that submissives only groups grew out of the perceived desire for submissives to have a safe place to open up to each other. I do agree with the comments that it suggests a lack of trust.
That does worry me a bit as Ds for me is a search for increasing intimacy. Although a highly structured relationship with a defined power dynamic I would wish my submissive to always be able to speak openly about their needs, worries and hopes and that this should be truly open and not forced out of them.
Dominant only groups and this may be true more of male Dominants are to my mind a place where we can go and share things that we do not wish our submissives to knwo at that point of time. Dominants are not good at showing weakness; there is an unstated competition to hoover up the untaken submissives (at least subconsciously. That is my explanaiton for our lack of willingness to share ideas as Dominants.
I prefer mixed groups. Meeting and sharing perspectives from both sides of the power dynamic and learning to trust and value each other is something we should always be doing.
I know that for me, I see segregated groups as a 'safe space' for each of the roles... not just submissives. Dominant only and Switch only groups exist out there. Like a support group.
The way I've put it to one person before was, "Would you invite someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder to an Anger Management group?" They might learn some interesting things, but ultimately, that group is designed to help people deal with their anger, and others will not benefit as greatly from its topics.
Now, do I support sims that have ONLY segregated groups? Absolutely not. I like the 'support' group idea, but I also believe that mixed groups need to be present in order for healthy growth to occur. But do I think that segregated groups need to be done away with? Not at all. Support groups have their place, definitely.
Thank you all for your thoughtful comments! I have enjoyed reading and thinking about them.
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